Showing posts with label Adam Dunn. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Adam Dunn. Show all posts

Tuesday, November 9, 2010

Adam Dunn: The Debate Continues

The Oriole Way was also inspired by our Twitter conversation and posted his analysis about free agent 1B Adam Dunn. But while my analysis took a look at Dunn's durability and the risk of signing him to a 4-year deal, TOW went deeper.

(This is why I love blogging; the chance to take an argument deeper and stretch out with it...could never do this on message boards...)

Now, he has forced me to go deeper to counter his argument in more detail.

Addressing his objections one by one:

1) He will cost the O's their second round draft pick.

Of all the free agent bats available, Adam Dunn is, by far, the best bat out there. He is a Hall of Fame caliber hitter and still in his prime. You don't get a chance to acquire a special bat like that everyday. (Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, etc, are all at the end of their careers.)

Any other big bat that the O's would or could go after this offseason would cost them prospects via trade and their worth would be more than a 2nd round pick. For example, getting Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres could require 3-4 top players/prospects. One of them would certainly have to be Adam Jones or Brian Matusz. By contrast, a 2nd round pick for Dunn seems a small price to pay.

Yes, the 2011 draft will be deep but the loss of that second round pick can balanced by spending more in the later rounds. Whether the team decides to spend money in the draft or not will have little to do with having or not having a second round pick.

Not to mention, the other good first baseman out there (Paul Konerko, Derrek Lee) are Type A free agents and may cost Baltimore a draft pick anyway.

2) There are lots of other, cheaper options for first base.

This is true. While none of the other options are anything close to Dunn as a hitter, there are guys who could come cheaper and for shorter contracts.

I would be more open to this argument if there was an heir apparent in the Baltimore farm system to play first base. If there was a top prospect who could play first, I would advocate signing Konerko, Lee or a lesser stopgap. But the Orioles best first baseman in the minors is Brandon Snyder who didn't show much at AAA in 2010 (or 2009 for that matter) and in the best case scenario is probably more Brian Daubach than Kevin Youkilis.

Dunn would block nobody and the Orioles have plenty of money to spend. He would fill a gaping hole for the foreseeable future.

3) He's been worth $15 million or more exactly once in the past six seasons.

This is probably the point on which I will concede. Perhaps $15 million is not market value for Dunn's services. My original calculations called for a contract for Dunn of 4 years worth $13-14 million per season. That's probably closer to his value but in my final calculations I rounded up to $15 million to account for extra money to lure him to the AL and to another losing club. But I would go $13 mil, probably up to $14 mil, per season to bring him in.

4) His "old player" skills and body type make me think he's susceptible to rapid decline.

And in his post, he links "rapid" to a picture of Travis Hafner and "decline" links to a picture of Mo Vaughn.

Here are those pics juxtaposed with Dunn:















Here's why the comps don't work in my mind.

Hafner does not have the same resume that Dunn had at the same age. Hafner certainly had three off-the-chart seasons but Dunn has been fairly consistent for his 10-year career.

Vaughn was only 6'1". And he got FAT. Different body type, no comparison.

Dunn is not fat. He may not be the best conditioned player in the league but his frame is enormous. It's meant to carry a bit a weight. Really, there are no body type comparisons for Dunn, at least not with his abilities. There is really no reason to believe that he will start declining before he hits 35.

Yesterday, I compared him to players with the big build and the big resume. I feel more comfortable with those comps than Hafner or Vaughn.

5) His 2010 season showed a decline in walk rate and a rise in his strikeout rate, which combined for a very large increase in his K/BB ratio.

This is true. But one year does not a trend make, good or bad. That blip does not scare me off.

TOW made the opposite argument against Luke Scott repeating his 2010 numbers because it was a one season anomaly. Similarly, I doubt that Dunn will repeat the his anomaly from 2010 in 2011. He will be 31, not 36.

More points:

"I think it goes without saying that Dunn's value lies entirely in his bat."

True. But that's enough. And I don't think he hurts you all that much on defense as a first baseman and that's the best you can hope for.

"This Orioles club isn't yet ready to contend..."


This is also true. But I believe that the Orioles will be ready to contend at some point over the next four seasons. Dunn can be a part of that.

While I concede the money may be a bit high, I still think a 4-year deal of $13-14 million per season is fair for Dunn's services. Again, Dunn has a Hall of Fame caliber bat and will only be 31 next season! He compares favorably to Reggie Jackson, Harmon Killebrew, Sammy Sosa, Ralph Kiner and Jim Thome through his age 30 season. It would be a shame if the Orioles are kicking themselves in 2013 because they didn't fill a huge need for a first baseman and an impact bat for a relatively affordable and (short term) price.




Monday, November 8, 2010

Big Bopper Breakdowns and Adam Dunn

As with so many of my posts, this one is born out of a comment here on the blog or by a Twitter follower. This time, it's from The Oriole Way. In response to my tweet advocating a 4-year contract offer from the Orioles to Adam Dunn, he had this to say:

4 years for Dunn after the worst K% and BB% of his career? That body looks capable of rapid decline. 3 years is plenty risky.

Dunn was only 30 this past season and I felt that signing him through age 34 is not all that risky. But I really didn't know how players of Dunn's body type and skill set had aged in the past. Dunn is huge, listed in Baseball Reference as 6' 6" and 285 lbs. As a rough cut, I decided to use the Baseball-Reference.com Play Index to take a look at players who were at least 6' 2" and 240 lbs. Also, the players had to have hit 175 homers prior to their age 31 season. That gives us the following list:

Frank Howard
Jim Thome
Ryan Howard
Jason Giambi
Carlos Delgado
Frank Thomas
Derrek Lee
Carlos Lee
Scott Rolen
Troy Glaus

From here, I eliminated Ryan Howard and Troy Glaus since they have yet to play their age 34 seasons yet. I also eliminated Scott Rolen since third basemen are just plain different from corner outfielders or 1B/DH types. That leaves us with seven players to help track Dunn's trajectory. Here are their stats from their age 31-34 seasons:


                Height    Weight   OPS   OPS+   HR
Frank Howard 6'7" 255 .919 166 162
Jim Thome 6'3" 250 .982 155 148
Jason Giambi 6'3" 240 .945 150 126
Carlos Delgado 6'3" 245 .957 146 145
Frank Thomas 6'5" 240 .926 135 90
Derrek Lee 6'5" 245 .869 121 96
Carlos Lee 6'2" 265 .833 119 110


The first thing I noticed is that while all these guys are big, none are quite as hulking as Adam Dunn. (Also, how big must Frank Howard have seemed back in the 60's?)

Second, only Frank Thomas (20 games in 2001) and Carlos Lee (115 games in 2008) missed significant time due to injury during this span.

How is the decline overall? A comparison of OPS+ up to age 30 and OPS+ from age 31-34.

               OPS+         OPS+
Up to age 30 31-34
Howard 131 166
Thome 147 155
Giambi 148 150
Delgado 140 146
Thomas 174 135
D. Lee 123 121
C. Lee 119 119



Surprisingly, even to me, we have 4 increases in OPS+. Carlos Lee held steady, his was who you thought he was (a power hitter with poor on base skills). Derrek Lee's decline is almost negligible and although Frank Thomas' performance fell drastically, it was still at very good levels since his prior performance was utterly off the charts.

Why is this? Do these bigger guys take longer to grow into their bodies? Maybe. But a big guy seems (based on this limited information) to be at least as likely to get better in his early 30's as he is to decline. He is at least a pretty good bet to hold serve.

Based on this, you could expect Adam Dunn to continue to be the .900 OPS, 130 OPS+ type of player that he has been to this point in his career.

So I stand by it. A four year deal seems a good bet to me.

Wednesday, November 12, 2008

Dunn vs. Teixeira: A Closer Look

Desert O of Weaver's Tantrum suggested that I take a closer look at Teixeira vs. Dunn. There certainly isn't anything else going on as far as the Orioles are concerned...so here it is.

I decided to look at the last four years for the two players. All stats cumulative for the last four seasons and rankings are compiled for MLB OF, 1B and DHs (As an aside, Teixeira and Dunn will both be 29 for the 2009 season.)

The lines for each player for the last four seasons:


Teixeira .299/.389/.550
Dunn .254/.381/.524




Dunn seems lacking from those numbers alone, mostly based on his batting average, an average that is incorporated into the slugging and on-base averages too.

Let's look more closely at one of Dunn's other shortcomings, his strikeouts.

SO

Dunn 691
Howard 679
.
.
Teixeira 457




Dunn is the clear leader in strikeouts over the past four years, only Ryan Howard comes close. Teixeira is way down on the list at 14th.

However, if you look at it a different way, the strikeouts aren't so bad. Total outs over the last four years:

Outs

10. Teixeira 1700
.
.
16. Dunn 1656




How does Dunn manage to come in under Teixeira? Well, if you strikeout, you don't ground into a double play. But mostly it's the insane walk rate.

BB

Dunn 449
Burrell 414
Ortiz 402
.
.
Teixeira 330




Dunn walks a ton which puts him squarely in the 100-100 club every year. He is, if you follow this blog, the kind of player I have a soft spot for. It also increases his value over your typical .250 hitter. He simply does not make a lot of outs.

Oh yeah, he can jack 'em too.

Homeruns

Howard 175
Dunn 160
Ortiz 159
Pujols 159
Soriano 144




Teixeira is down the list at 139...Dunn holds the advantage in terms of pure power when you take batting average out of the equation as the ISO numbers show.

ISO (Isolated Power)


4. Dunn .279
.
.
11. Teixeira .251




Next is Runs Created and Extra Bases. Tex is clearly superior here but Dunn is no slouch.

Runs Created

3. Teixeira 510
.
.
10. Dunn 459



Extra Bases

4. Teixeira 305
.
.
11. Dunn 273




Who's the better all-around hitter? Teixeira is and I think that's clear. But Teixeira is thought to be looking at contract offers of $23-25 million per year. Dunn, according to most sources, will probably get a deal in the $12-13 million per year range.

Is Teixeira twice as good as Dunn? I don't think so. If you're the Orioles, it's all about value on the free agent market this offseason. Dunn offers some pretty good bang for the buck if you want to avoid the big bidding wars.